M.Raeez: assalamualaikum
Uncle Zunaid: Wa’ alakumsalaam
M.Raeez: Uncle Zunaid, as youngsters that grew up after the 1994 democratic elections, we would like to know about the apartheid era, so I would like to interview you, asking a few questions.
Uncle Zunaid: I hope this is for a school assignment because it’s a good start where youngsters that grew up after the democratic elections will know what the past was, and will not make the same mistakes of the past.
M.Raeez: Gee, it is for a school assignment. Can you tell us something about yourself like your childhood and how you got involved in politics?
Uncle Zunaid: On 1945 born in Beckers street, Fereras town. I came from a family that was predominately political. My mother and father were in the Indian congress. I grew up in a house where in our very young days we met people like Albert Tituli, Nelson Mandela and Walter Sisulu. My two elder brothers Esop Pahad and Aziz Pahad who are now ministers in the ANC government who were members in the communist party at that stage. From a very young age , not only I but everybody that grew up in basically Beckers street were somehow influenced by the African National Congress and Transvaal Indian congress , I think everybody that came of Beckers had some idea of politics at that stage.
M.Raeez: So basically did Beckers street influence you going in to politics?
Uncle Zunaid: to a certain extent, but more so I think it was my mother that gave us our political influence.
M.Raeez: What was the most significant which you can recall as an apartheid activist?
Uncle Zunaid: the season trial where Rivonia high command was sentenced to life imprisonment in Robbin Island. Then came 1976 riots so called uprising in the townships and then the creation of UDF which was the eternal being of the head African National Congress and then the eventually 1990 political organizations were unbanned. The ANC were banned in 1961 with all other, political organizations, the communist party, the PAC after Massacre in Sharpeville. The ANC was always a non-vigent organization and after this event they launched what was known as the Arm struggle, we launched Muguwe Sizwe known as a spear of the nation. This is where the arm wing of the ANC was created. I think on that creation of the arm wing this brought a whole new dimension to things struggled in South Africa, up to then we were following impese sisters movement and after that we then went in to an arm struggle against the apartheid region.
M.Raeez: Do you think all this events encouraged you or discouraged you to make a difference in South Africa?
Uncle Zunaid: I think it encouraged us. I think those who went through the apartheid eras had a much better understanding of what it was to live in those days and I think we’ve come out much stronger with a much more sense of responsibility and we now cherish our freedom more because we have more freedom prior to 1994. I think it’s made us much stronger in character, as well as in our understanding of world politics.
M.Raeez : Did you ever have a run with the law at that time?
Uncle Zunaid : 1994, we were in a cell known as the Dadoo Uyud movement, with in that cell there was a group that was instrumentally in blowig out the Fordsburg in the fereras town post office, some of the cell members got picked up and some of us had to leave the country and got to the UK.
M.Raeez : what was your attitude towards the politics after those runnings or bad experience?
Uncle Zunaid: I think when you talk of bad experience of prior to that when we as kids couldn’t go see football at a Rand Stadium, we were segregated against, we were given a very small area to sit in, to couldn’t go to so call white cinemas we couldn’t go to so call white restaurants, natural resorts like Warmbaths. I think that hardened our resolves to fight against injustice system, where anybody could discriminate against you because of the raises of your colour and I think that, that hardened us, not just running in with the policeman prior to that, anybody that joined the organization, whether it was the communist party or the African National Congress, we had already been a party of the organization, so you already hardened prior to running in with the police , it was the circumstances prior to what happened when the arm started, which made everybody harden against the South African Government.
M.Raeez : Were you involved with people who reacted to the situation in a very violent way who were being disadvantaged?
Uncle Zunaid : Well, I don’t know, if you look whats happening today in Palestine , Afghanistan, Irag, the west has now been calling us so call Islamic fundamentals terrorists. People act violently to different situations. If your mother, your sister or father been killed, you would then automatically act accordingly. Yes we did. That’s why the ANC created after the Sharpeville massacre the ANC then created Mugandwe Sizwe. This was the arm wing of the ANC, after that we were completely non-violent movement. Its only after that we created the arm wing of the ANC.
M.Raeez : Basically, the white people or all those who were involved in apartheid pushed you on to react in this way?
Uncle Zunaid : Definitely, if the white government of the South African government had come to the negocialating table, the ANC would never have gone on to a arm struggle. The arm struggle was forced on the ANC.
M.Raeez : do you still have contact with any of fellow activist that maybe in the government at the movement and do you keep in touch with them?
Uncle Zunaid : Yes, we do because now all of us have now joined the ANC branches, within our own area, I am the local councilor for the city of Johannesburg and we do, I think we do still meet a lot of the people who were activist at that time, people like Mat Maharaj, Mozy Moola, Abdulhai Jassat, Dr Jassat, so there is still a lot of meeting of at all levels.
M.Raeez : Were you ever arrested or detained? If yes, describe your experience.
Uncle Zunaid : All ANC governers were members. The ANC who were automatically member of the Mkoto ie Sizwe.
M.Raeez : Describe your experience belongs to a member of the Mkoto ie Sizwe.
Uncle Zunaid : Mkoto ie Sizwe were split up in different levels, you have the commissioners which were the educators which went to learn theory, then you had the actual soldiers, a lot of us were sent to the German democratic republic, and we only went to learn theory, none of us really were taught how to use fire arms, when personally I was never involved in any arm struggle against the white government. We came back to South Africa as political sleeper, that would educate people towards the ANC course.
M.Raeez : Do you think that played a better part or being part of the arm struggle would make a difference to South Africa.
Uncle Zunaid : I think they go hand in hand, without the education of the community, the arm struggle could not last, because if you do not have support from the matters of the people, you would not be able to sustain your arm struggle, you had to have the community support and then the creation of the UDF was the internal wing of the ANC, played an major role in the distruction of the apartheid era.
M.Raeez : How do you feel about those in power at that time?
Uncle Zunaid : I think we got to hate whites in general not only those in power because I think we were very milertind in the sense that we saw the whites and we saw them as enemies then we realized that within the whites community, we get people like Jew Slower who was the secondary general communist party, Ram Fishant who was the eternal secondary general of the communist party. Jew Slower was the eternal. More efficient the wife of Ram Fishant and Ram Fishant had joint the apartheid government would have been one of the of the best presidents he would ever had but chose to join the ANC struggle against the white oppression where you had people Helen Joseph, theres countless of people. You had people who were arrested at Rivonia who were whites, so our attitude changed when we became more educated to the fact that it wasn’t the colour we were fighting, but we were fighting a system that was appressive, a system that loked as people as, not as people but judges as from the colour of our skin and this is I think the young South Africans today and we hope and make duathey would not judge people by their colour, they’d except people for what they are and not for who they are.
M.Raeez :Do you think the blacks today will still go against the whites because of what was done in the apartheid?
Uncle Zunaid : I think South Africa was very fortunate in having the calaba of Nelson Mandela, who then became the first president of South Africa. After the assesanation of Chris Harley, the people like Nelson Mandela and now the president Tabumbeki, Walter Sisulu, Garn Mbeki have kept South Africa together. I think the message the ANC has been sending out that we want a non-sexes and non-racist democratic South Africa. Simply means everybody are equall and I think the youth especially the African youth a beginning to accept that we have challenges here because our servicedeliveries could be better and I think the president Tabumbeki has been punishing for service deliveries and if we can get that right, I think we can be on the right track.
M.Raeez : How did you react to many of the different laws example group areas, past laws ect.
Uncle Zunaid : well, the first time I think I was only a year old and my mother was under a passive resistance to jail and infact I was too young to understand what happened, after hearing the stories, that strengthens my resolves against fighting. I think appresive laws, the past laws didn’t affect the Indians so much. It affected the African people. But i think what happened is as you grew up in the political enviroment, this indirect affection of the past laws, group areas, the group areas affected the Indians directly because most of us were business people, we had shops in vrededorb, we were living in the centre of Johannesburg and we moved out to Lenasia the shop also moved to the Oriental Plaza. So the group areas also had a definite and a immediate effect on the Indian community.
M.Raeez : Did you ever see a neck lacing?
Uncle Zunaid : No, fortunately I haven’t seen these but the neck lacing that was alone in the so called ‘’townships‘’ was a necessary evil, because the security service of them had infect traitored a lot of our organizations. The comrades that were in the townships said the only to get rid of these so called informers was going the necklace way. I don’t believe that this was the correct route to have taken but we can now discuss the hindsight to say it was, but at that time the comrades felt that it was right, each group work independently on each other. The ANC exhale condemn the neck lacing, and they said it was not part of the struggle and that is not what we should be doing.
M.Raeez: What message would you like to share with the people of South Africa today?
Uncle Zunaid: Especially to the youth who were born just prior to 1994, and the youth after 1994, the other generation we went through the apartheid eras. The youth that don’t know what the apartheid is, surely hope that they read about it, there are books on Nelson Mandela, there are books on our great leaders, I suggest they read it and I suggest they realize the dream the ANC have, to keep the non-sexes, the non-racial democratic South Africa. And they become part of this dynamic movement to create the society in South Africa so we all can live in peace and harmony.
M.Raeez: Speaking about the youth in the apartheid time, were the youth mostly involved or was it more the elderly people?
Uncle Zunaid: No, I think the youth was very much involved; the school boycotts in the townships were led by the youth. The 76 riots started by the youth, they refuse to accept Afrikaans as the main language of teaching and it was started by the youth. The youth were in Cape Town. The youth were for front of the creation of the UDF. Then in Transvaal we had the Indian youth Congress, which were part of the less democratic movement led up to the UDF, so I think the youth were very involved. Unfortunately, unlike the youth of today, because you have everything, you have no idea what apartheid was. The youth of today are not very involved politically and I think that is bad.
M.Raeez: So basically they are just enjoying the fruits of the…
Uncle Zunaid : Well, they are enjoying the fruits of what their fathers and mothers went through, but for their sake we hope they become politically active, to engrave what the society is looking for.
M.Raeez : Inshallah. Are you hopeful of South Africa today?
Uncle Zunaid: Very hopeful, as a Muslim I look at South Africa, we have no restrictions in our religions today. Come to my warning, we previously 2 masjids. We’ve got now 14 masjids in a radiance of km. We have no problem of Daarul Ulooms. We have no problems of opening madressahs. The azaan is given in the era’s we predominately in and we have no problems with that, if you take other countries in the world where they have so called anti Islam movement, you then realize how happy we are in South Africa that we have no restrictions, we have been as part of the South Africa community, it is now for us as Indians especially as Muslims to play our part because Islam teaches us equality of men. We should play our part in this role.
M.Raeez : Jazakallah Uncle Zunaid.
Uncle Zunaid: I hope this is useful, but I hope the youth would take notice of what’s happening around then and create this atmosphere where they could be part of this whole new society.
M.Raeez: Assalaamu-alaikum
Uncle Zunaid: wa’alaikum salaam
M.Raeez: That was Uncle Zunaid from the ANC.
